Episode 23 · · 00:31:13

How Do Agencies Get Clients If SEO Is Dying? (Push vs Pull Marketing)

Alex can't remember the last time he googled anything, so if SEO stops sending buyers, how do small agencies get found? We get into push vs pull marketing, whether B2B buyers ever see ChatGPT ads, and why we're eyeing local models while Sam Altman calls the RAM in home PCs a waste.

Hosted by Chris Willow and Alex Zakka from Wayfront.

Watch on YouTube

Show notes

Full show notes

Alex used to be good at wording a Google search just right. He can't remember the last time he did one, since any AI takes a vague description and gets him the answer. That's a problem for agencies that grew on SEO. Chris thinks SEO agencies should sell GEO as its own price tier even if most of the work is the same (quality content, topical authority and the right schema). We also get into why the agencies you pay for links don't flag the ones that disappear or quietly turn nofollow, which is the gap Backlink Pilot, Wayfront's link-checking side project, was built to fill.

Then there's paid reach. ChatGPT shows ads on its free plan while Plus and up stay ad-free, so who does a B2B ad actually reach? Chris thinks the real audience is AI-curious small business owners who only use the free plan for quick questions, which is why the ads he sees offer to set up AI in your business.

On the AI side, Alex wants the team on RAM-heavy laptops running local models at the next refresh, while Chris would rather put one big shared machine in his office. That sounds a lot like Sam Altman's argument that RAM in home PCs is wasted, and Alex, a PC gamer, is not having it. Chris's local model on his iPhone starts compacting after two questions, he's been locking down AWS roles, and an AI security audit fixed its own finding in a PR before he ever read the report. He's also looking at small language models trained for one job, like a sales agent that keeps the CRM fresh, and training data has turned into its own industry, with companies paying cleaners to wear GoPros so robots can learn chores.

We close on push vs pull. Small agencies have mostly grown on pull, planting a flag in an SEO or GEO pocket and letting inbound find them. Chris thinks that's getting harder and that push (brand advertising, showing up wherever your ICP is) matters more. Alex points out that being everywhere like HubSpot takes HubSpot money, and wonders whether buyers who don't know they have a problem will ever feel the need to switch. Chris agrees the sales cycle runs longer, so the goal is being the name they remember when someone drops the ball.

Your Wayfront demo

Let’s see if Wayfront fits your business.

Do you sell repeatable digital marketing services, or plan to?

Think SEO packages, link building, or monthly content. Services you deliver through a similar process for different clients.

Count yourself and any regular contractors.

You’ll pick a time next.

Pick a time that works for you. Your email is already filled in.

Loading available times…